CR Blog
Question of the Week 01.09.09
Posted by Mark Sinclair, 1 September 2009, 10:33 Permalink Comments (76)
Tying in with our current graduate issue, our latest QoTW asks what kind of things students need to bring to the workplace that they might not have learned in college...
So you get your degree, you have a successful show and a portfolio of great work. The creative world's your oyster. But what else will you need to get to the next step?
Graduates sometimes bemoan the lack of 'real world' skills that they're able to pick up in education – while studios are often surprised at how unprepared their student intake is for working life.
What can gradutes do to improve the transition to paid work, be it within a studio environment, in an agency, or setting out on their own?
Is having a website important to get your work out there, or does a well produced CV still impress the most? How should you email people for jobs, or arrange meetings?
Is developing one's personal skills a priority for the workplace? Does appearance still matter?
There's a lot to bear in mind before graduates set foot in the creative industry – and we want to know what advice you might have to make that path a little easier and, hopefully, more productive.
Question of the Week is produced in partnership with MajorPlayers
76 Comments
Not necessarily requiring technical skills, but having a good "sense" of how design will work on the web is almost mandatory now, yet is almost completely missing from most grads I have met and worked with...
2009-09-01 12:25:08
How to write a covering letter properly! and how to apply properly...I am often appalled by bad grammar, spelling mistakes and a lack of understanding on how to appeal to a new employer.
Any out of the norm activity, like charity work or self starters projects or anything to show how keen they are and in the zone on their line of work.
2009-09-01 12:33:48
humility
and spelling
2009-09-01 12:50:54
In my opinion most have everything to learn. Graduation is not the end of a persons education, it is just the very beginning. Most graduates seem to come out of uni/college thinking that they are somehow owed a job, when in fact they need modesty, a willingness to learn and a lot of hard work to get their foot in the door, especially in the current job market.
As already mentioned, spell your CV and covering letter correctly, professional working is all about the details.
(Make lots of tea and coffee for people in the studio, it always helps.)
2009-09-01 13:06:03
Whilst Colleges and Universities are great for stimulating ideas and encouraging failure over perfection, an understanding of how this experimentation can befit the 'end user' is vital for hitting the ground running.
What the final year needs to do is apply the ideas and experimentation learned to real world usage. 'Commercial application' should be a module studied in the final year. Or maybe even a further education course?
That said, your previous question on work placement also goes some way to answering this topic: We as an industry are capable of offering this learning too. The good grads will have done placements and gained commercial knowledge along the way already. Freelanced, and have been well read both on and off line.
Summary:
Selling yourself online with your own blog is a great way to practice commercial reality. Selling yourself is the biggest live brief you will undertake. Take time to nail it right first.
I'll try as always to produce a blog post on this tonight. It's a topic worth airing.
2009-09-01 13:09:40
Agree with all comments above!
As a recent graduate (0kay, its been 4 and a half years...) II think it is really important for graduates to be able to sell/promote themselves as a brand - not in an ostentatious sense, but more to illustrate knowledge and abilities. Much of design is about external awareness and consistency - without losing grips on the ever important creativity!
A website is a definite; again, it does not have to be super fancy, but it wouldnt harm to put a little TLC into it!
Everyday office skills never go to waste - as people have already pointed out spelling and letter writing are important as they play a large part in what is essentially a designers job - communication!
Just my 2 cents worth...
2009-09-01 13:23:22
They should learn not to apply for a web design job from a Gmail address and without an online portfolio. Basics
2009-09-01 13:27:56
Stay young at heart and never lose that need to keep learning.
2009-09-01 13:36:46
You know, I'm not that sympathetic to all the talk of how to sell oneself. I think that needs to come later on down the line, after learning how to get along with other people (basic manners, humility), how to be punctual, how to be polite and gracious, and how to write like a literate human being. (Lord, lord, I canNOT stres that last point enough. Seriously. Grammar, spelling, and punctuation are your friends, kids. [And everyone else, too.] The comma: learn to rock it.)
My two biggest complaints about the interns and recent grads I've worked with (in publishing) is that many of them are openly resentful about doing grunt work and many of them lack basic skills, both office and social. I loves me a creative person as much as the next guy but nobody should expect their creativity to get them a free pass on behaving like a professional. Yes, I expect you to be punctual, yes, I expect you to do as I ask you to do with good grace, even "menial" tasks, yes, I expect you to be able to write coherently, etc., etc.
And lest I sound too much like a cranky old broad (well, okay, if the shoe fits ...), I do want to note that I have had some fantastic work experience with recent grads, including as recently as this summer. Overall tho'? Not happy with the attitude and the basic skills that the majority bring to the table.
2009-09-01 13:42:06
Graduates have it tough at the moment but they shouldn't give up, the most determined ones will succeed and will emerge from the recession stronger for the fight.
Being prepared is half the battle, you could be the most talented person out there but if you can't be found then you're going to fail. Getting your work noticed, whether it's via a website, blog, forum or even by sending out good old fashioned postcards is a start. An impressive CV is a must for getting that first job, as is a portfolio screaming 'look at me' that shows off your skills and potential.
Think about where you want to get to, make some goals, then work backwards; ie: If I want to end up doing this I need to do that first.
Starting out in the industry will be frightening, challenging and a huge learning experience, but ultimately rewarding. Don't lose sight of where you are heading.
One of the main problems for today's graduates is making that jump between university and the workplace. The gap seems gigantic, and takes some adjustment, time which unfortunately this year's 'New Blood' won't have, with more pressure to perform than ever before, and less jobs for those who lack experience.
A suggestion for the future is for agencies and studios to offer more work experience opportunities and placements to third year creative students. In theory it's a win-win situation, with the student gaining valuable insight and a contact in the industry before they finish, and the agency potentially gaining a new employee after graduation. Current employees would be more on their toes, there would be new and fresh ideas coming through, and creative ideas feed more creativity. The New Blood are the future of the industry, and some might argue that companies have a responsibility to help bring through the next generation.
Of course, the student would have to be up for it, or the company would come away feeling that they've wasted their time and resources. And that's another problem... time is money, especially in this climate.
Not so long ago I was one of those graduates, trying to make that jump. I was fortunate to join a company who have a history in bringing through New Blood and helping them to develop as creatives. t2 Studios has grown and developed alongside its staff. There are other companies out there I'm sure that have the same mentality.
Even if they can only offer unpaid work placements at this stage, take it. This experience will be vital for the Class of 2009 on your journeys to becoming the next directors and leading voices in our industry.
2009-09-01 13:42:43
Graham's comment bears most weight here. We still find ourselves with a teaching system that lets budding creatives let fly with their imaginations, but with little containment in the form of end use or application.
I've seen countless designers that ooze confidence but fail when their creativity misses the message and has no relevance to any strategy within a brief.
Any graduate that takes the time to deconstruct and get under the skin of all media (whether it be high-end advertising or restrictive corporate communications) will be able to create designs with context and find far more success than people solely seeking to own their own creative space within the industry.
And if you add to that an understanding of business in general from a PR/marketing/brand perspective, then that in turn unlocks the ability to create full communications plans, effective brands and industry leading advertising. This obviously comes with experience, but an early interest is a great stepping stone.
Of course it's about being fresh, different and unique... but with the end result as the target.
2009-09-01 13:46:03
Determination, modesty, a willingness to learn, good english language and the ability to take knock backs and carry on. When I left university I worked throughout the night for a week creating a unique CV that was memorable and also creatively used a new packaging technique. I then called and made contact with every design studio - big and small - throughout Manchester and arranged face to face meetings. Even if they had no positions available it is good to show your face, make new contacts and get experience in the interview situation. If a studio like you they are more likely to contact you shoudl a position become available. I made contact with a large studio in Manchester who did just that, they said they have nothing at the moment but they would keep me in mind. 3 months later I had a job. Simple.
2009-09-01 13:57:03
With regard to the written application, it should be a written in a formal manner. Many people don't know how to write a formal letter (address and date to right, starts with Dear sir/madam, well paragraphed, ends with Yours sincererly, etc). If you don't know how to do this, look it up. Grammar (to, too and two; there, their and they're; here and hear; know your homophones!), punctuation and spelling are all important, but you should also be able to project your character. Explain a bit about yourself and why the company and the job appeals to you. You need to make the employer feel you really want this job and showing a level of knowledge and interest will help (do NOT say how you are going to change the company from the ground up!). You also need to project your knowledge and intelligence and again, show humility. Show what you expect to gain out of working for this company. Most of all, keep it brief (not a one-liner saying "Please give me a job", but definitely not more than a single A4 page). Less is more. Apply design principles and think, how can I say as much as possible, but keep it succinct. Remember, there are possibly hundreds of other applicants going for the same position and the employer does not want to have to read a book about you. He won't. If he has to turn a page, he'll bin the letter. Also, if there is no position and you are just applying because you like the company, then definitely, you need to impress the prospective employer, so they need to know everything about your application, very quickly.
To expand upon APROPOS point above (humility), if you get to an interview, one of the most important things to show is a willingness to learn. This shows an acceptance that though fresh out of college, you do not have all the answers and you do not know it all. I found in my early applications that it was always viewed favourably to be honest with my responses but to show enthusiasm. With this in mind, when asked, how would you do abc, if I didn't know I would reply 'I'm afraid I don't know but I know how I could find out about doing it.' This shows the prospective employer that I'm not afraid to say I don't know and I'm not afraid to admit that sometimes I get it wrong. This (coupled with a generally well rounded education and an open attitude to the job) helped me get through the door of the earliest companies I worked for and helped me gain the experience I needed to progress. I'd like to think that I haven't lost that attitude either, and that if I don't know, I still go and try to find out, which is another thing I'd recommend. You should never get to the point where you feel you know it all. You should always yearn greater knowledge and greater experience.
Hope this has been of some help to you all out there. It's done me good service in the past and hopefully might help someone gain their job of choice in the future.
2009-09-01 13:58:27
- A sense of digital and an understanding of how design for the web works.
- How to generate ideas collaboratively.
- How to work with others avoiding ego and the ability to grow a second skin and take criticism is a must.
- Basic business skills/sense, self promotion and communication skills - enabling you to be proactive when graduating, setting up a collaborative or freelancing.
- Determination is critical as is the want to learn.
- Stick in it's worth it.
2009-09-01 14:06:17
How to make tea!
Tea should always look the colour of PMS 466 and have one suger.
Paul Phillips
2009-09-01 14:13:15
I feel the challenge is not with the graduates, but with the potential employers. They have to realise that in every sense, these designers are at the start of their careers. They need to be mentored, and they will learn extremely quickly. (sometimes picking up the bad habits of the past century).
Everyone needs to be open-minded. Graduates need to realise that a first job won't be a dream job. Employers need to realise that no one fresh out of school is "fully cooked" as a professional, and will require some investment of a more human nature.
2009-09-01 14:20:34
What might seem scary right now will be a piece-of-cake in a years time
Don't be to precious – the client will often change your concepts dramatically
If not done so already make-sure you know your ampersands from your ligatures
Think plain English, and be concise, unnecessarily long answers and jargon don't make a good designer
Don't let the software lead you – let it be led.
2009-09-01 14:24:57
I disagree with Paul Phillips; it should be PMS 729.
Aside from that, everything that should be said has.
I must just reaffirm the need for a thick skin, spelling and effective design that translates between print and digital, big and small.
(I was a product of a four year digital media degree back in '99 and the third year industrial placement was truly invaluable.)
2009-09-01 14:29:20
The ability to collaborate, convince and persuade. Read my free book How to Get a Job in Design for new grads. http://www.ritasue.com/book.
2009-09-01 14:34:36
Being able to solve problems under intense, real pressure. Sometimes problems have to be solved on the spot. This can be a problem if you have not already been exposed to this and cannot use your own initiative.
As for emailing CVs / folios. I'm always shocked at the amount of emails we get from designers which contain errors. The single most important thing you can do to put yourself in front of the masses is to check your emails before you send them. It's imperative. None of us are perfect, I'm certainly not, so use spell checkers and re-read them backwards if you need to but please remember, the sentence...
"I have amaznig attention to detail."
...will not land you a job as a designer at a respectable studio.
2009-09-01 14:37:00
Really interested in this topic! I run my own agency with my partner and but also, as of this week, teach part time at the local art college where I hope to install some basic industry focused design skills in the students. It seems to me, that in all other professions, students leave with a thorough understanding of the basics so why does the same not to apply to graphic design?
We are doing both students and employers a dis-service if this isn't the case. Employers these days struggle to make the financial commitment necessary to take on a graduate (they take while to become cost effective) and students should have something to show for all that debt!
2009-09-01 14:37:18
I agree with Paul Phillips but prefer mine closer to Pantone 1245, 466 is too weak.
2009-09-01 14:37:55
I asked this very question on our agency blog and got some great response from several professionals, both veteran and recently out of school. See the conversation here: http://bit.ly/3KksZX
2009-09-01 14:58:56
1 Speed (no three month projects (well rarely))
2 Keep learning (we’re still learning, and enjoying it, you have reached the beginning not the end)
3 Usually coherent speech is somewhat lacking in the majority
4 Do your research - know what a prospective employer does
5 Be of value to your potential employer (why you?)
6 Park the ego
7 Tea making skills essential
2009-09-01 15:20:45
I don't think it's just design grads. We need to get more kids into Apprenticeship's so they are learning exactly what they need to and come out with there grades and working experience.
I'm currently looking for an intern for blur Designs.
2009-09-01 15:21:45
If a course is on a subject where the student is likely to be required to go self-employed, they should have an understanding of market requirements and how existing professionals in their field operate, as well as a realistic appreciation of what they can expect to achieve themselves. Unfortunately many courses ‘fail’ their own students by promising them highly-paid, exciting careers, when the reality is quite different. The tutors and course leaders are in no position to make these claims but they do so, in order to get the numbers up, to keep themselves busy. So many times I have heard comments from tutors, along the lines of, “If we get one decent one into a job, I’ll be happy.” Well, what about the other 30 in the class? Are these casualties acceptable?
These students should all have been fully prepared to take on the challenges presented by their industry. If the courses are not doing so, it should be made clear at the off-set that this is not a course that will assist you with a career and may in fact damages your chances. Ideally, many of them in low-demand areas, should be closed down and only those potential students with the very best portfolios should be allowed to study creative subjects. There just isn’t a market for the huge number of graduates we have in the creative areas.
All that said, even if you have been ‘failed’ by your tutors, if you are committed and are willing to put in the graft, you can recover and fight for a place in industry.
For photographic students in particular, I wrote some advice on portfolio building, as we see a lot of mistakes http://www.ddpweddings.co.uk/articles/?page_id=70
2009-09-01 15:29:25
1. Be polite
2. Do your research
3. Work hard
4. Don't expect financial gains, but keep learning.
5. Know your strengths and improve on your weeknesses
6. Network on the web and off.
7. Make a folio website.
8. Ask questions
9. Make time for rest and relaxation...your brain needs to recover too.
10. If working for yourself, get an acountant!
Michael Murdoch
http://www.thehouselondon.com
2009-09-01 15:30:21
Why are their no academic educationalist (lecturers) on here telling us what the course curriculum actually is... and why?
Still on holiday?
So are all design courses the same... are all graduates the same? That seems to be the suggestion and the very nature of the original question... and inherently there lies the answer!
Figure it out.
Then you can call yourself a designer...
problem solving.
Seems to be huge gap between 'bums on seats' brigade and that includes Government and real skills for the real world...(is that really what we want?) and that doesn't include "oh look I've got a Mac and can print something out that looks 'finished'" brigade either... I have DTP and a Secretary for that!
Give me a 'designer' that has never been near a Mac and knows the difference between a Nut and a Mutton.
Nevermind.
Whooosh...
Let's just say I don't want a graduate telling me they intend to use 'Trebuchet or Verdana' as a corporate typeface... or even at interview!
Funny innit, everyone goes on about 'portfolio' and yet 'idea generationa and sketch pads' is the key core skill and most frequently asked for 'to see' ... but no graduate ever posts those on their CV/Blog/Portfolio... bit of a clue perhaps?
Can you draw, freehand, a perfect circle, a thumbnail of A4 in proportion...?
Another clue.
And just what DO the French call déjà vu?
gradders
Note
If this software works!!! (another clue)
3 quotation marks and an acute and grave accents... ANOTHER clue!
2009-09-01 15:46:25
That businesses needs to make money and from that make a profit and that staff are the biggest overhead - so what can they bring to an organisation to make it more effective and/or efficient?
And then, apply it.
2009-09-01 15:54:12
1 - They need to just know their software better.
2 - 95% of them need a better workflow
3 - Don't be scared to ask questions.
4 - Get organized, you can never have to many folders
5 - How to set up files correctly (bleeds, gutters, crops, outlining, separations etc.)
2009-09-01 16:37:05
Graduates need to learn while still in school, the importance of promptness. Many students skip class or are late for class. This in addition to other life skills are critical on the job. Employees need to know how to communicate like adults. So often, I hear employers speak down do their subordinates; subordinates who are professionals and may even have a masters degree. The employees or co-workers need to have the ability to respond in an adult and professional manner. Good communication and cooperation are essential to good moral and efficiency.
Other important skills I think graduates may be lacking are:
1. Organizational skill
2. Listening skills/interpersonal skills
3. Prioritizing
4. Analytical skills, especially in reading and problem solving
5. Research first, then ask for advice, or help
6. Ability to write well
7. Work time is work time, there is always something productive to do
8. Willingness to help others, no matter how busy you are
9. Humility
10. Common Sense
2009-09-01 16:42:53
So does anyone need a cup of tea? I'm making.
2009-09-01 16:46:07
As a recent journalism graduate I find it terrible that, despite having a lot of work placement and freelance experience, all people seem to be offering are unpaid internships. I have just spent thousands upon thousands of pounds getting a degree and then an MA in journalism in order to train as a journalist and living for a month working unpaid as an intern- I simply cannot afford to support myself on the zero that these places are offering me to work 9-5.
This simply perpetuates the fact that most of journalism is dominated by middle class people whose parents supported them in the beginning. For equally, if not more talented people, willing to do the menial grafting jobs but just cannot afford to live without an income it is nigh impossible to get a foot through the door.
The PCT (The Periodicals Training Council) who try to regulate journalism are actually trying to stop the practice of long term (sometimes as long as a year) unpaid internships by proposing a set limit of 4 weeks. This way companies will be forced to employ somebody for the job, who will be trained and not necessarily from a well-off background. I know magazines who might need a graphic designer or someone to work on the website and rather than employ someone they know they can just put an add out for an intern and get it done for free.
I think setting a limit is a step forward and it needs to happen if people like me who are highly trained, highly motivated and willing to start at the bottom taking orders and doing menial jobs to get a foot in the door but cannot afford to support themselves without being paid. Perhaps the government could do more to support people like this but as it stands I am stuck in a terrible position of wanting to do all these internships, being as good as if not better than other candidates but not being able to afford it and it is intensely frustrating!
2009-09-01 16:46:12
wage negotiation...
... without it, everything else is in vain.
2009-09-01 16:46:37
Today’s businesses need graduates who have both academic skills and the “savvy” to get things done. Graduates need to build the awareness and behaviours needed to become outstanding employees – and to achieve this they need one-to-one support, which helps them develop soft skills and gain access to previously untapped expertise in their places of work.
In the West Midlands, we have introduced a new scheme using Graduate Works, a company that helps graduates develop better workplace skills during the early years of their career.
The pilot scheme, trialled in Stoke on Trent and supported by Advantage West Midlands, is the first of its kind in the UK that helps SMEs train and improve the performance of their graduates. Typically SMEs don’t have the number of graduates or the necessary in-house development skills to warrant building and delivering a dedicated graduate development programme. Consequently, graduates can be left to develop themselves.
As a result of this new initiative the graduates involved are more confident and focused about what they need to deliver for the business. This in turn means that they start to add more value to the business more quickly – which is what employers are asking of the graduates they take on.
2009-09-01 17:20:13
Actually, the point someone raised about printers marks and bleeds is so true.
I designed an entire magazine and it was the printers, not my tutors at university who told me about adding crop marks and bleeds to pages. Having studied product design at university herself after working in printing for a number of years she said it was her telling the other students and even the lecturers how to ad bleeds, why it was important and how to arrange magazines into printers pairs.
It does seem there is a gap in these circumstances which could be easily filled by having people who work in industry coming into universities and either teaching the students as a guest lecturer or consulting with the people who run courses and helping to fill in any gaps.
2009-09-01 17:45:01
A nice video made by me and my creative partner to help young creatives like ourselves get advice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tjav1JFqi0
2009-09-01 17:49:55
In 2008 I was writing my dissertation at university. My question: Is a university education necessary to become a successful graphic designer?
Listed on my blog, http://szabohaslam.blogspot.com/2009/07/survey-of-industry-designers.html , are some of the more interesting responses from Tado, Peter & Paul, Nick Bax at Human, Ken Garland, David Bailey at Kiosk and Michael Lyndley at Truth Studio.
I had (and still have) major issues with the way particular areas of my design education were handled. For example, of 60 or so graduates, I believe fewer than 10 have their own website: roughly the same as the previous years’ graduates. Much of that is down to personal aptitude, and not everyone is interested enough to take their education any further, but there was no web design/portfolio module for those who wanted one. After becoming accustomed to visual packages and techniques across a 3-year course, Dreamweaver can be a very alien piece of software to learn without help: many students simply did not understand the coding aspect.
Faculty eventually organised a lecture after our external examiner expressed his dismay, realising almost no one had their own website: two weeks before the end of the course students received a one-hour lecture on how to set up a Behance account.
The point I’m trying to make is that sometimes software training is overlooked, particularly when considering not everyone comes into education at the same level: many of my year group had never used design software before; some had never used a computer. There was a limited amount of software support, yet all were expected to produce professional work by their final year.
My dissertation research indicates that 38% of graphic design students do not know the difference between RGB and CMYK, what a Pantone is, or understand why a printed piece of work should be high resolution. From my course alone, 69% of students were unhappy with the level of software training. At various degree shows, I and fellow students saw plenty of evidence of type set as low-res bitmaps instead of vectors, and bitmap images imported as RGB so the colours didn’t match the rest of the CMYK document. I’m not saying universities should cover every facet of the printing process and hold weekly software training sessions, or that students should be an expert of every piece of software around. But, sometimes not even the fundamentals are addressed.
Many of the agencies I speak to want me to have ideas, but they also ask me how I am able to execute them. The question ‘how quickly can you do this in Illustrator/InDesign’ is asked just as often as ‘how did you reach that solution’.
2009-09-01 17:53:27
In reply to gradders, no we're not all on holiday. Not all courses are the same but I would say that most teach the same principals. As a designer/lecturer I can look it from both sides.
I would emphasize the need for a good grasp of grammar and spelling, one I continually push. You can hardly expect to be taken seriously otherwise.
As WM Dunkin said don't be afraid to ask questions, my best designers were those who continually asked questions, that's how you learn and develop.
Perhaps a follow-up question could be – 'What does the industry need graduates to know?'
2009-09-01 17:59:38
All of this is going to prove very valuable re reading over this next year... I'm currently just about to move into my third year of a graphic design degree, and over the summer I did a months work experience at a medium sized graphic design studio in London.
It was a real shock to my system, and I'm glad I've had it now.
I've always prided myself on my punctuality and English skills, and these certainly came in handy... However, I've also always been proud of my face to face communication, but somehow, faced with real life clients and a room of twelve people who I was desperate to impress, I turned into a shy, stuttering, awkward shadow of my 'university' persona, who is confident and enthusiastic.
At the end of my time there, one main critique of 'me' was that I'd not been communicative enough, and I agree with this... I'd hide in a corner, not wanting to 'get in the way'. I'd finish a job and then wait half an hour before telling anyone, when in actual fact I should have been showing them my efficiency and communicating much more with the rest of the team.
A lesson learnt, and one I'll definitely carry with me in the future!
Another comment - and apparently this is common amongst interns and recent graduates - my filing was appealing. 'If you were killed in a bus accident tomorrow, would we be able to find your work, and work out where your ideas were?' Answer...? Probably no.
So, in my experience... communication, organisation, punctuality, and generally being easy to get along with are just as important as design skills and software knowledge.
2009-09-01 18:09:47
As a recent graduate I'm finding this conversation incredibly fascinating. I suppose, we come into the arena believing that we have something to offer, what most of you are calling ego I would argue is more like naive exuberance. None of us really know what we're doing, but think that you want us to. The relationship between employer and intern needs to be one of give and take, I've had some truly horrific experiences, yes we accept that we'll be doing the dogsbody jobs, but try and be respectful too, we've spent 3 yeas (at the very least) trying to learn all about the subject the we're faced with requests to make tea or take out the rubbish. As graduates, we look to you as potential mentors, wise and experienced we hope that you will see our enthusiasm and try and guide it. Yes we're often like puppies with ball wanting to run before we can walk, but it would be nice to have some to calm us down rather than take the ball away.
It's a difficult situtation, in the main agencies are understaffed and over worked as it is and finding the time to nurture a grad is hard, but I think you'll find its worth.
2009-09-01 18:11:36
Having a website with a portfolio is important. Even more important is to have a broad range of skills. Graphic Design covers many things from 3D to Video to Website design.
It took me a while to get a job here are a couple of mistakes I made. Send of jobs applications strait away. It's possible they will find their applicant before the end-date. Spelling and grammar! Get someone really good at this to check.Questions I always got asked at interviews were -
Where do you see your self in 10 years?
What do you class as your weaknesses?
Why do you think this job is for you?
Think about what you would say to each of these. On most Graphic design jobs I would suggest not to wear a suit.
2009-09-01 19:42:09
So does anyone need a cup of tea? I'm making.
2009-09-01 20:16:34
Great comment Paul. Puts a different spin on the problem, one which could benefit graduates too. I blogged that comment on my site, along with a slightly more in-depth response
http://www.grahamcreative.me/question110909/
2009-09-01 20:43:52
General opinion seems to suggest that grammar and spelling are of the upmost importance - but going off some of the grammar and spelling mistakes in many of the messages above, it looks like it's not the be all and end all!
In all seriousness, the most important thing I learnt when I came out of University, with an average degree from a then average degree course, was to adopt a professional approach and mindset as quickly as possible. This meant putting in the extra hours to really immerse myself in what it means to be a graphic designer/creative but if it's want you want to do then it will be a rewarding experience. And as a last point - never stop learning and continuously look to develop your skills.
2009-09-02 08:43:25
I think graduates need to be toughened up before they are ready for their first job, and they usually are by default through the rigorous process of getting onto the first step of the ladder.
A lot of graduates abandon the chase after a while a figure that they weren't meant for a career in design. The industry seems to be a microcosm of 'survival of the fittest.'
Graduates need to have an unshakable belief in their work and skills without arrogance. They need to believe in what they have done but realise they are just starting out, they aren't the finished product. Is anyone ever a finished product?
They also need to have a constant thirst to learn, the workplace is a lot more educational than Uni, and new graduates need to be ready to exploit the learning possibilities if they are lucky enough to get a position.
Manners, good presentation, humility and the ability to make a cracking cup of coffee will see you do well I think, as long as you have the basic skills and knowledge to back it up.
2009-09-02 09:00:21
Some very interesting and useful comments here. I graduated from uni this summer, so naturally I'm nervous about leaving education and entering the working world.
However, I am lucky enough to have been working part time in a creative agency throughout my final year, having been offered a position following a 2 week placement last summer.
The differences between working on uni projects and commercial briefs came as a shock to me; working to very tight deadlines, having to work on numerous projects simultaneously, and also having to follow corporate guidelines.
Uni didn't prepare me for the commercial industry at all, and had I not been working as well as studying, I would be freaking out right now.
2009-09-02 10:12:47
To draw the line when the Creative Director asks to fuck you up the arse!
2009-09-02 10:51:40
I am about to start my third year. What worries me the most is I don't drink tea or coffee and as such have no idea how to make a good cup/mug/recipticle/bowl of either. I fear this may well hold me back.
2009-09-02 11:25:47
As an individual who has never been to university, I find this question intriguing – what do individuals learn from going to university to study graphic design? It’s evident that university gives people the chance to develop their skills in design, to learn from those who have worked in the field for many years. Though when these individuals are placed into a working environment, are they able to work successfully?
I've discussed this question in more depth on my own blog, it would be great to hear your opinions on my argument.
http://www.olivernewthgraphics.com/site/cr-qotw/cr-qotw-graduates
2009-09-02 12:53:19
All really good and useful points, the only one I can add is one I always tell graduates:
A lot of emphasis in University when I was there was put on ideas, which is a great thing to concentrate on but we never touched print so take a trip to a printers. You can have all the ideas in the world but when sending something to print and you don't have an understanding of the process it can be a disadvantage.
2009-09-02 13:57:43
SPEAK TO US!!!!!!!
There is NOTHING more soul destroying than a lump in the corner with white wires hanging from their ears.
I've just spent the last month with an intern who looked like they were going to cry every time I asked them a question. I gave up after week 2 and their and my time was completely wasted.
From a business development perspective, I suggest all design grads go and do 3 months cold calling telesales, anywhere. Nothing will help develop their thick skin like a summer of "no thank yous." It'll help develop their pitching skills, their communication skills as well as their sense of humour.
Saying that, we do actually like having grads in- give us a shout.
Blah blah CMYK, sending stuff to print and good grammar- design grads today are seriously lacking balls.
2009-09-02 14:50:36
@b
Give up now, mate. You've no hope. ;)
2009-09-02 15:01:09
@ Alex Peterson
don't you think the Gmail address thing is a bit much? It doesn't really speak on a person's talent/drive/ability does it? The online portfolio definitely, but that just goes to show how rediculous things are getting...
2009-09-02 15:27:48
Top 10 tips for grads/students
1. Apply direct to the right person - "Dear Sir/Madam" shows laziness.
2. Do an online porfolio. The Internet is there. use it.
3. Research the agency before an interview. It's not hard.
4. Beg, steal or borrow work experience. For free. Whenever, however.
5. If you're good, work experience can genuinely lead to a job.
6. Smile, be fun, have banter, work hard, make yourself known, work on anything.
7. Ask questions, however stupid they sound. And ask for advice. People are happy to help.
8. Realise that you're competing against many other people. Appreciate it if get in the door.
9. Don't sit there listening to your bloody iPod.
10. Work experience is a quid pro quo. We give you valuable help and experience. You work for free. That's life. Get used to it or go and audition for X Factor.
PS InboxDMG loves grads. So if this is you, please apply at creative@inbox.co.uk!
2009-09-02 16:51:50
First thing I learnt when I left uni - you don't know diddly squit!
Humble pie? I was eating the whole flipping three course meal with coffee and mints.
2009-09-02 17:27:40
Sometimes people overlook the resources that are available on their doorstep, at their universities or colleges, local council, etc. There are subsidised training programmes and bursary schemes out there, often available to lots of graduates or students. It's not always us versus them, take advantage of what's on offer and make use of careers and graduate support systems, they are part of what we pay fees for!
One of my friends did this last year and met a lot of people:
http://www.csm.arts.ac.uk/csm_immersion.htm
Bret
2009-09-02 17:43:53
I just graduated in May from a school in the states with a great design program, but my degree wasn't in design. I had focused in art instead and what helped me land first my internship and now my job was that most of my portfolio was not class assignments - I spent quite a bit of time, especially my senior year, helping my friends. College is a fantastic opportunity to do this. Student organizations cover campuses everywhere and any organization could always use the (usually free) help of a designer. It's a fabulous way to practice what you're learning in the classroom and then when you send out a portfolio and go to interviews it gives you something that has actually gone to print. The out-of-class work was what employers gave me the most comments on and when I applied for the job I currently have, only one piece in my folio had been done as an assignment.
Question as to what someone else said, what is wrong with a gmail address? Not being defensive, just curious.
2009-09-02 18:27:23
Really getting the feeling that this is all a big numbers game for the government. Very little real-world preparation during degree courses, or follow-through on graduation. Speaking as a self-taught designer and business owner, I can honestly say that I don't feel disadvantaged by a degree-less CV. Rather, I find that people are eager for the real-world experience I put in instead.
On the gmail address question, I think there is a certain stigma attached to using a free email service. It does smack of 'unprofessionalism'. Of them all, gmail isn't quite so bad, but at the end of the day it pays to sell yourself like a company would. And I've never seen a free email address on any self-respecting company's business cards.
2009-09-03 00:23:38
As someone who has employed a number of staff, the point raised against webmail is ridiculous. If someone's that snobby, do you really want to work with them? I would never not consider someone because they happened to use a free, and great service. If you've your own website it's pretty obvious you could have your own bespoke email address, but bob@bobsmith.com smacks of egoism. Talking about yourself in the third person on your own website, which I'm guessing appeals to anyone spouting the ills of using free webmail, is far more likely to see you not hear back from me.
@b Come and work with me. I don't like tea or coffee either, regardless of the Pantone.
2009-09-03 09:27:19
As a recent mature graduate, I could not disagree more with some of the comments on here from said professional mature designers. You really need to take a long hard look at yourselves!
Having also worked as a freelancer over the last three years in London, doing a few placements and having worked for a major company for twelve years, I feel that most agencies I've experienced are unfriendly, intimidating, thankless empty places that contain pretentious design dinosaurs and rich kids, who have never experienced life's difficulties.
I've just spent three years, working my nuts off, racking up a 20,000 student debt and you want me to work, for free, in London, making TEA... whilst you sit there reading the Guardian news online or downloading the latest itunes...... and you can't even be bothered to say 'thank you', 'join us for a drink', give us advice or include us, so we learn the skills that are missing, that University doesn't teach us.
Don't forget we are STUDENTS, we don't know everything and nor will we unless you spend some of that precious time of yours helping us. University does not teach you a lot, they concentrate on idea generation and that's all you get for five hours a week and a twenty grand debt.
I totally agree about punctuality, working hard and taking care of grammar, but somethings you can't learn until your in an office environment.
There is a massive gulf between graduates and real world designers and I blame the professionals!
If you take on a intern, whose no good. whose fault is that, surely your judgement? Dont tar us all with the same brush. I know lots of graduates who will have good careers and I know some who won't. But Im yet to find a company that's welcoming to graduates. A lot of the points raised are pointless and just pure moaning, by I can only imagine, tired, bored soul less creative directors. Infact they are the same moans each year and out!
And before the comments come flying in, I am easy to get along with, Im not trouble and I can hold my own as a designer, as for good qualities and working hard, well, I was on a YTS mechanics course when I was 16, one of life's great groundings.
Remember, if you want students to be professional, try acting professional towards them, most of you are not paying for our time, put yourselves out for once. Remember, you were passionate creative juggernaughts once, not the miserable unapproachable dinosaurs you are now.
Ps. If there's any bad spellings, bite me! Just because I know all the letters in the alphabet, doesn't mean I have to know how many there is.
2009-09-03 11:29:39
Hurray! Chew on that collective design-o-taurs! You can't expect to bitch about interns without them biting back eventually. If only I had the balls of this guy or girl (it's so hard to tell when you don't put your real name).
"It is pretty unfair that young designer's are given the hardest test they will face in their career (finding their first job), when they are least prepared for it (just out of college)."
Adrian Shaugnessy wrote that. Or something pretty similar. Apologies for the mis-quote.
2009-09-03 12:49:54
Why does everyone bang on about bloody tea...I've been on 5 placements and none of them wanted me to make them tea!! I think thats just rude!
2009-09-03 22:00:24
@ Gemma Mercy
but too many balls and we're cocky. This shit is hard to figure out
2009-09-04 16:58:39
So... Graduates need to be:
Humble but ballsy.
Happy to work for nothing but not undercut or devalue the professionals.
Eager to learn but know their way around a bin bag and a tea pot.
Online and blog but never make use of a gmail address.
Inquisitive and ask questions but already know how the studio operates to avoid 'obvious' irritating questions directed at studio staff.
Simple.
2009-09-04 17:10:13
Spell proper, make tea, empty the bins, work for nothing, keep your mouth shut, don't bite your finger nails.
Rule Britannia! Boring.
But seriously. What don't they need to learn? Design is a job, most design is pointless as are most jobs ( ! ).
Wake up it's time to go to work! There's bills to pay.
But hey, p.s: Never stop learning and remember the Design ego is the Beergut of the 21st century.
2009-09-05 03:38:30
I would like to share this article regarding design graduates and design education, I think it would be quite relevant to this topic. Just mind you its from a Malaysian context.
http://www.arterimalaysia.com/2009/06/09/2682/
2009-09-05 04:50:06
This is a very good question.
From my point of view as a printer, they need to learn what is possible to print and how to save it correctly so that it is strong enough to survive the plate making process.
We do not mined explaining this to the graduate designers but the arrogance some display is unachievable. We regularly have designers who even after repleted requests will not save there PDF's to curve or outline.
A typical example was the mess that was recently supplied for a designer with an MA. This person new it all apart from the need for bleeds, 300dpi plus photos, saving a double sided job as 2 separate pages, putting the crop marks in the correct place, making sure that parts of the back of the job did not get overladed onto the front, removing the proofing notes from the job and much more.
This person had no idea what they were doing and yet had been designing for a magazine for some time. I feel really sorry for the people who were pricking up the peaces after them in there office.
The real pain is that we get this every month and we are considered the once who do not know our job because we tactfully point it out to them.
2009-09-05 09:33:13
Tea. Cake. Manners. Punctuality. A good sense of humor. Good Design & lots of ideas—that's what I'm offering anyway.
2009-09-05 19:21:28
@Alan Offord
Sorry Alan, Im a guy, 34 and Ive worked at some major studios in London over the years, hence the false name. I didnt feel I was being ballsy, but merely saying what some graduates experience and feel. My first placement was at a big studio, who told me there was a junior role if I did well. On arrival on my first day I was told there was no such thing and that they had no intern program what so ever and did not know what to do with me. As I had not gone to Central St Martins, this was also frowned upon.
As for my second, well I was also told early on there was no job as they had just taken someone on. Those four weeks were hell as they didnt use me for anything. Only reason I was there was to fill the placement spot.(though I did get paid £150 a week )
So what can us students do when your faced with such hurdles?
This is why I prefer freelancing. I can earn far more money than a salary job, have more freedom and not have the pain of immature office politics, get tea made for me and work on projects that I find interesting rather than being passed on to me because no one else wants them.
@Trevor Collins
I understand your pain completely, but just because the student had a MA, does not mean he should know how to set up jobs for print. This is my point completely about how far the real world is detached with University teaching. Setting up work for print is not something tutors spend a lot of time enforcing. I've seen many errors and have tried telling students many times about this, but it just falls on deaf ears. They won't learn until there in a job where they cost their studio a few thousand pounds. Our course at LCC spent 30 mins on setting up artwork. Do you really think that is enough? And the BA courses,, well, I think they dont even cover it. What Universities teach I feel is a far cry from what is needed in the real world. Projects last for a term or year at a time. How many projects are like that in the real world???
Stop giving students a hard time and start encouraging them!
Infact I love Wieden+Kennedys new project Platform - why cant other studios follow their lead????
2009-09-06 21:43:41
I'm going in to my final year of a Graphic Design course and I'm dreading having to find a job after it. If last year's graduates are anything to go by I'll have loads of problems finding a job. Only 2 or 3 out of about 30 have actually managed to get a job in a design agency. It's scary.
2009-09-07 00:04:03
Next question, already!
2009-09-07 15:17:31
EVERYTHING.
2009-09-07 16:49:49
- Don't pick up a design magazine, see a good design or illustration style and pronounce "That's it! That's what I'm going to do!". You will not find your own individual style in a magazine or online.
- Don't expect to just exist for a while and then an ad agency will knock at the door asking you to do a new global campaign for Nike or the next BBC 3 re-brand. You might just have to take on some small design jobs first.
- Don't go through your life thinking you really are the only one doing this, the sooner you realise you're one person in a million touting their design skills the sooner you'll have the right head to procede as part of this amazing word of design.
That's what I was never told at college, but instead learnt from clients, mentors and colleagues during a few lost years after graduating, until I actually understood myself and how I could make my way as an illustrator.
2009-09-08 12:18:59
I don’t see any problems with grads now days; they are pretty well determining about their aim and progressing at mark3 speed to achieve it. There could be small problems but are not big issues…
2009-09-09 06:20:25
GRADDERS
Please get in touch!!!!!!
vickyharrop@hotmail.com
Im a student at LCC doing a dissertation on this subject and your answer was particularly interesting to me. I would like to send you over a question to answer.
Please contact me.
2009-09-29 22:45:38
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